How all over would Bryndens mother be on Lorelei if she was alive ?

January 23, 2017

Esemella Hayford was the very definition of motherly. She would be absolutely beside herself with joy. In terms of Westerosi Ladies she was pretty prototypical, so she'd be going full in grandmother mode.

I am looking forward to see our Tower. Is it a nice Tower ?

January 23, 2017

From the History document:

"A tower that resides upon the western banks of the Blackwater Rush and acts as the gateway to Steadhold from the western Goldroad. Its foundations are built of oily black stone, the same stone used to build the foundations for the Blackbridge, it also predates the castle and town of Steadhold, likely with First Men origins. Tall and stout the tower is at least six stories tall with a beacon upon the roof that can be lit in case of attackers from the west. Over the years the tower has had a handful of residents. The Malroys of Blackbridge Tower, a cadet branch, occupied it most famously for some eighty years going extinct after the First Blackfyre Rebellion. Come Robert’s Rebellion the tower had already fallen into disrepair, the top floor having fallen in, though the siege that occurred during the Sack of Steadhold collapsed it further, reducing the tower to only three stories."

So... No, not really right now. It has the proper foundations to be a rather nice tower. I plan to do a Mason thread to roll his House just prior to really starting again. Sort of get some input on the direction of his bannerhouse and what sort of stuff he'd have.

What is the best kind of match we would be able to get Victus ? How good would it be if we gave him Redwards old land ?

January 23, 2017

Remember when Ser Jon Longwaters had thought to marry his son to the daughter he thought Brynden had? About there. A small Knightly House that could be considered down on their luck. A much lesser branch of a Minor House without much chance of inheriting. Another bastard from another House of equal repute add House Malroy. Somewhere along those lines. It would very likely be someone local to the Crownlands. At best the outskirts of the Reach or Riverlands.

However, given his path is under that of Dontos, a true Knight, and he is a Malroy bastard there is a chance he could jump a bit higher by winning a Tourney for a lesser daughter's hand that while still not the penultimate in matches, would still be much higher than Brynden could arrange.

Either way. Giving him Redward's lands is a tricky business. Again when get into Brynden's nepotism. Though not unheard of too grant lands to a relative or family member after conquest, one might question Brynden's decision to banner his own bastard son. It would do him no favors in regards to finding a match, as many Lords and Knights would view Victus as being gifted his status by an incredibly open handed father, rather than upon merit of his own. Not to say it isn't a valid idea, having the western Princewood under full Malroy control again would be wise. But perhaps there are other options that might be considered more tactful, or ways to guide Victus to performing acts of merit or gaining himself something great that would warrant Brynden landing him in Redward's old lands.

This is all of course assuming Redwatch Tower/Bolthole Hall survive the ordeal. Or Brynden finds the funds/resources to rebuild.

How would Obella and Donts react if Brynden had Victus legitimized ? Lorelei aswell

January 23, 2017

That'd actually both be on the same side, rather angry. Now that Brynden has true born children he doesn't have any particular reason to legitimize Victus other than pure nepotism. It would complicate the order of inheritance and make Brynden look like he doesn't trust his Dornish bride and their children to rule the House.

It's one of those situations where I'd Brynden could, he would. Victus might as well be his true born son the way he treats him. But he is distinctly aware of not only the difficulty of removing the taint of bastardy but the sheer amount of issues that it would bring with it. So he simply refrains. If things had gone differently and he had stayed in Essos eventually he would have named him a Malroy, Westerosi laws be damned.

How was the Malroys relations and views of the Blackfyre before and after the rebellion ?

January 22, 2017

It's a real mixed bag of I'm being honest, both prior and after. House Malroy was at its apex come the First Blackfyre Rebellion, and really that is what caused the family to shrink so significantly. If you look in the History Document you'll see where the major players sat, but there were people all over the map.

However, prior, Lord Garin Malroy held them at arm's length, he was Daeron II's man through and through. He was not fond of the idea that House Blackfyre had been granted lands right down the river from him. Though on the same token he was conflicted, given how much he had given his own bastard Ser Remy 'of the Rush' Sand. He could not help but see parallels and often warred with himself upon the issue. Garin was a good Lord but foolish in his own rights, he loved too much and it began the seeds of descent throughout House Malroy.

Upon his death in 187AC his son, Ser Alliser Malroy inherited and was firmly in Daeron's camp again. Distrusting near all of the Great Bastards. His half brother, now Knight Protector of House Redward, Remy aligned himself with his views.

Meanwhile the elder Knight of Blackbridge Tower, Ser Gerald Malroy had found himself taking the opposite view, and thought Lord Garin was a weak and flimsy Lord and a hypocrite to boot, power deserved to rule in his eyes and the sword Blackfyre held more power than anything. His son Ser Geoff Malroy served the Blackfyres even going as far as to take an Essosi wife. His daughter was married to a known Blackfyre supporter, Ser Morgan Meadows and their children thereafter throughout the years.

Ser Howard Malroy aligned himself with his elder brother, though in a very lackadaisical way, he served in the Reach as a Tourney and Hedge Knight, often visiting his sister Valaena Malroy and Falena Malroy in the Rings, House Roxton's domain, which was these base for most Malroy Blackfyre supporters. He ended up dying on the Mander's crossing, after a duel with Set Quentyn Ball.

And speaking of the Blackfyres. Did Best Aegon ever have anything to do with the Malroy women ?

January 22, 2017

Two of them actually, at very different times.

Alycent Malroy was fond of the young charming would be King, being they were if a similar age, he took her maidenhead in a visit to Steadhold during a Tourney. Rumors swirled about Steadhold after that she had been gotten with child. Ultimately that is what led to her being married to Mors Malroy of the Blackbridge Tower Malroys. Note her first born, Baelon Malroy's early death, perhaps there's a darker reason to that. More rumors, kinslaying, infanticide, things that stick for awhile. Though some chalk it up to the mother's weak blood, her elder sister died young as well. What really happened is lost to time, as is any remarks regarding Baelon's appearance.

The second was some years later, towards the end of Aegon's rule, a young Valaena Malroy held aspirations of becoming the next of the King's great mistresses. Of all the Malroy women she is the most like Cersei Lannister. Cunning and deceptive, not above using her female charm and sex to get her way, she thought to influence the King, perhaps even bare one of his bastard children, or several. It is of little surprise that once her father, Lord Garin Malroy found this out he married her off to the elderly Lord Renford Roxton, to get her out of King's Landing immediately. It was reported she didn't bleed her first night, though many blamed the saddle for she was a Malroy. The three sons of Renford from the Lord's previous marriage believed otherwise however, and did everything in their power to curtail the new Lady of the Rings power and influence. They fought her for years, including during the First Blackfyre Rebellion where she wished to take the side of the Blackfyres and they did.

Who was Goldsongs father what kind of horse was he ? How was the mare that gave birth to him ?

January 19, 2017

The father was a horse that belonged to Lady Isabella Malroy, he was more of a riding horse in his older years but was a Tourney Horse in his youth, she picked up on him because he had been particularly tall and it made him easier to ride for her. Still, he was apart of the longer live and bred regardless. His name was Goldstrider. He had a bit of personality, Isabella would talk to him the same way Brynden does Goldsong.

The mare was among the warhorse brood, she was the daughter of Vamos' monster of a warhorse, Atonement. She didn't have a particular name, was just a breeder, but a part of the oldest line. Not a lot could be said for her.

Father could you give us a physical description of our family, father mother, sister and brothers. Etc etc?

January 19, 2017

Part 2:

Donold took after his mother and the poorer side of his father's side. He was shorter than Brynden, and on the homely side, much like Samuel and some of the more unfortunate Hayfords. He had none of the charm of his siblings, and was never considered a part of the Valyrian beauty of the rest. Eyes of dark green to brown and ruddy brown hair, he wore a patchy and rough beard. He was stocky and spent his time on martial pursuits to work off the pudge on his gut, to little effect given how much he ate. Despite that he was a damn good fighter, and an honorable knight and man, a lot of his issues with Brynden came from teasing about how he looked half a bastard compared to his brother and then said brothers actions there after. He was proud and arrogant but was just not an attractive prospect to a woman given his lack of social grace and beauty and his preference for martial pursuits to that of court. Vamos had to force the issue and was the only driving force behind him being married, despite it never happening, despite even the Crown Prince's efforts in Harrenhal.

Pastorn was a mix, he had Brynden's build but with the features of his mother. Him and Wesley actually looked pretty similar. Black hair that he kept short and with a beardless face. He had pale green eyes and generally looked dour and sad. He was attractive in a solemn way and his particular love for the harp did not help. He pulled a particular kind of woman, that sort attracted to broken things. He was the Tourney Knight of the group and road a sleek mare from the same brood as Goldsong. His armor was unadorned charcoal grey barring a gold cloak with black fridge, most only knew it was him from the shield. There was a time he considered joining the Gold Cloaks and would have likely risen high among the ranks.

Isis and Dontos I've given plenty of descriptions before I believe. That's all the major ones. Can't really give close celebrity approximations for the rest of the family.

Father could you give us a physical description of our family, father mother, sister and brothers. Etc etc?

January 19, 2017

Lord Vamos looked like the typical Malroy, black hair, green eyes. He wore a thick beard most of his life, was Brynden's height and build, if not a bit stockier. He was a brawler first and foremost. Mace and heavy shield type with the biggest baddest warhorse in the herd. By all accounts he was a handsome man in his youth despite a crooked nose from a squire's melee that turned into a fist fight at the end. His hair had a mix of silver grey come Robert's Rebellion and his face was lined with grief and trial.

Lady Esemella Hayford was a beautiful woman by court standards. The Hayfords tend to either go comely or homely and she took on the latter. She had long auburn hair that she kept in a long braid with green and gold lace near her lower back. She had emerald eyes, a particular trait that Emmon Malroy had been fond of for a match for his first born. She was a tall woman, she was more of a curvy woman not in a bad way, like... Kat Dennings? I suppose that works, dresses were a nightmare for her. But she was typical of the fertile Hayfords. She often wore the colors of her House, because at the time it was a relatively high profile marriage between two powerful Houses that were neighbors. But she wore the colors of House Malroy well and was striking in them, often wearing them at high end balls and court. In her older days she had grown pudgy from her four children and her breasts had sagged but she had the face of a matriarch, she was damn proud of her children and represented them well at court.

Isabella Malroy is the only one of Vamos, herself and Dontos to have Valyrian features. Silver hair and eyes of dark blue. She was built delicately, much like Isis is. She is tall, almost as tall as Brynden, she was actually taller than Luther Benedorn and the reason Archie is built like a beanpole. Typically the woman of House Malroy have that sort of build, delicate and tall, lithe and graceful bodies but they've particularly had problems with carrying children.

Did Brynden kill his Valyrian genetics by marrying Obella ?

January 19, 2017

Not at all. Just some odd results, I'm basing a lot of their outcomes on Daeron II and Mariah Martell and their children and grandchildren. Mind you, if you look at the Malroy family tree they have intermingled with Westerosi for years, only random Valyrian marriages here and there, and they still haven't lost it since the famous Targaryen marriage.

Awww. Mason got a son. Thats sweet. Father you are aware that we can see what is written by clicking on the field no matter if it is blacked out, right ?

January 19, 2017

He sure did, Elionwy and Mason have been a bit busy. It hasn't quite happened yet, the timing is set with another event. Mason will ask a particular favor once it's announce.

Will Mason name his firstborn son after us ?

January 19, 2017

Unlikely. But good ole Mas would prefer to have two children and if the second is a boy he very well may.

Liked by: Graham Logan

How many people were living in Steadhold before the sacking?

September 18, 2016

More math!

So first let's establish a few things. One the Outer Ring would be considered a Small Town, for my purposes I've always started at the base 600 of a Hamlet and multiplied by 5 for the next tier, i.e. Hamlet:600>>Small Town:3,000>>Large Town:15,000>>Small City:75,000>>Large City:375,000 (This is mostly based on King's Landing have a population of 500,000. Which is absurd, but whatever. I assume the largest player owned holding would be comparable.) Regardless ~3000 is where we're at.

Two, the Malroy forces were 1600 strong (assuming immediately on the onset of Robert's Rebellion), with 100 knights, so 1700.

Third let's assume the castle staff is on the higher side, so 250, and another 50 for personal servants, etc. to give us 300.

In the end that gives pre-Sack Steadhold a population of about 5000. Which is hefty.

House Malroy prior to the Rebellion had 2 primary Domains, with House Redward owning a 3rd and the shared land between Langward and Malroy that the latter now owns fully. They also had a Population score of 29(less than what we're working with now) but only spread out between the primary two, thus giving us a rural population of 5800.

Another bonus thought. I might want to rethink my Populationx200 formula. I don't think it makes a lot of sense in the grander scale of things. I've read that historically it takes 7-10 rural people to provide for 1 urban dweller, the Art of War states it takes 7 people to provide for 1 solider (assuming Chinese systems of 8 per block). So with a city of 5000 people the rural population of 5800 would be too little to properly feed, cloth, arm, etc. the city without constant threat of famine. Beyond that I've read that Westeros on the whole has a population of 40 Million and the Crownlands perhaps owns 1.5 Million of that it would make more sense for Population scores to correspond to a much higher amount of smallfolk rural population. Perhaps Populationx700 would be more appropriate? Not sure.

Liked by: The Father

What do the smallfolk in Steadhold think about their Lord's wife?

September 18, 2016

They're quite pleased on the whole. Obella is very good at being an attractive charming face and is willing to socialize and reach out to the smallfolk of the Outer Ring. While Brynden is away she is the one primarily dealing with the discontent with Mason and Jonos' help. I mean of course you have your nasty rumors and such, because she's dornish. And there are some that fear their Lord dares the gods to bring the King's Wrath upon them with such a bold choice.

She may or may not have already gotten her claws into the underbelly of Steadhold and the Outer Ring. Since Brynden has given her leave to set up her own spy ring and all she's slowly building a network amongst the smallfolk that would help "positive propaganda" should it ever become necessary.

How many people are living in Steadhold currently?

September 16, 2016

Well... Let's do some math.

A hamlet, as defined by Mississippi state law(incredibly random I know) is no larger than 600 people. That's a fair statement let's go with that as a base line. On top of that we have about ~250 displaced people living in the tent city. We have currently 530 men in our military, another 100 from House Longwaters, and another 100 from House Qorgyle. There are also 25 Knights, so let's assume a squire for each, so another 25, giving us 755 military personages. An average castle's staff is about 150-200 as far as my research takes me, let's go on the short end and say 150, give it another 20 for the family, their personal servants and friends and we'll round out at 170.

So grand total: 600+250+755+170= 1775 Give or take I suppose. Much less than Karban's Saltmouth that's for damn sure. Just as a rule of thumb I usually give 200 population per point of Population under 50, after that 100. So at 31 let's assume Brynden's rural population is 6200 so a grand total of 7975 overall, again give or take

Bonus answer! As I've answered a long time ago each domain is 1 league, or roughly 640 acres. So Brynden with 3 domains has 1920 acres or 3 Square Miles. Assuming Population Density = # of People/Land Area we can calculate the non-urban population density: 6200/3 = ~2066.6 people per square mile (translated to people per acres would be ~3.2 people per acre so your average farming family I'd suppose).

How does Brynden compare as a military commander to previous Malroys ?

September 16, 2016

Unorthodox to say the least. In terms of rankings there is one stand out above and beyond any other Malroy in history commander and that is Lord Bravil Malroy who presided over the Third Blackfyre Rebellion, Peake Uprising, and Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion. In game terms he hit a 7 Warfare and was as skilled a fighter as the Kingsguard Ser Landor 'the Burnt' Malroy. Historically no other Malroy even comes close.

There are a few commanders that Brynden would rank among, assuming he served in a larger war and was able to prove at large he was a skilled commander rather than the small scale conflicts he's currently in. Obviously Ser Aeson Malroy is one, holding command of a large force during Aegon's Conquest that brought a stop to any western enemies attempting to cross the Blackwater Rush/God's Eye River. Lord Baelor Malroy during the Dance of the Dragons was an accomplished commander and held the greatest land force in the Crownlands, but was largely impeded by the Greens attempts to keep him out of the conflict in earnest. Ser Jaehaerys Malroy through being the First Ranger of the Night's Watch for some thirty odd years was widely considered a shrewd and capable commander. These guys are all 5s in Warfare in game terms. Considered capable commanders and were respected by their peers for it or rewarded heavily for it. Brynden falls into this tier, but has yet to prove it in a wide scale conflict such as... The Greyjoy Rebellion.

Below him a step are a few, 4s in Warfare in game terms. His grandfather, Lord Emmon Malroy, was about there, but was mostly supported by his family like Vamos Malroy, Lucerys Celtigar, and Tomas Branfield during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Lord Garin Malroy who commanded during the Conquest of Dorne was a solid warrior and commander, but not to any great extent. He spent more of his time whoring in his youth, and in books of law in his elder years. Lord Alliser Malroy was a better warrior than he was commander, he fought well during the First Blackfyre Rebellion and was mostly supplemented by his half brother Ser Remy Sand and House Redward.

Despite everything with how good and lovely things are with Lorelei it is still funny to me that she was conceived in some cheap backalley winesink. What do you think ? Not something the parents will mention ?

September 16, 2016

Well I mean there's a chance she was conceived in Sunspear's palace, Brynden and Obella did sleep together a couple times both on and off screen during his stay. But of course neither one of them could be certain, Obella was aware she was ovulating so she just took as many opportunities as she could. It's very likely if Lorelei ever asked they would claim Sunspear's palace in a whirlwind romance. Not the sleazy winesink it likely was. It's funny how that worked out.

So how would the family feel from 1 to Aerys "She smell dornish" about their dornish grandchildren. Ethnically and culturally ?

September 16, 2016

They actually wouldn't be mad about the Dornish part. Despite historically the Malroys not being particularly big fans of the Dornish outside of a few odd balls like Lord Garin Malroy. Given the crown prince had just married a dornish woman the family would likely see it as a great boon to the Household, the furthest abroad their influence had ever reached something comparable to the Royal House, they would have cause to appear at court more often, to more deeply ingrain themselves in the court's politics and current regime. But alas, it was not to be. The culture difference is kind of big, that Obella is a spy, does her aerial silk with little modesty, and is an incredibly confident and arrogant woman would put them off a mite. It's likely some of that will translate to the children, and the family would be very ehhh on it, expecting the children of the Household to act like proper Malroys rather than the dornish.

Did Victus ever have any friends at his own age ?

September 16, 2016

Growing up, not so much. A few here and there in Essos, but being constantly on the move and running with a sellsword company makes it hard to keep anything consistent. In Steadhold, again not so much. Given most of the castle had disappeared or died after the Sack leaving very few children his own age about. In Castle Chelsted however he has a couple different friends. Two commoners who are servants about the castle, a scullery maid named Mabel and a Stablehand named Owens. He's also developed a bit of a rivalry with Ser Raymun Chelsted's eldest son, another squire, Jaremy Chelsted.

Victus' ability to befriend anyone and be a charming little son of a bitch stems from not having a lot of friends growing up. He made due with what he had and made friends where he could.

Were Victus not away when Lorelei was born ? Would like to see him meeting his baby sister.

September 16, 2016

Yeah Victus was in Castle Chelsted when Lorelei was born so he's yet to actually meet her in an in thread capacity. I plan to have that scene at some point, probably around the same time I do the Slice-of-Life thread with his birthday.

Would Victus even let his sister bully their siblings? Would she bully him? Would she bully her own mother by riding horses?

September 16, 2016

Victus has such an age gap on Brynden and Obella's children it's unlikely he'll be around for much of their childhood, so he might be able to stop the bullying a bit, assuming it occurs, but after awhile he just won't be there to do it. Lorelei is more likely to end up respecting her eldest brother, simply because he's going down that path of a True Knight and is about to end up with some friends in high places. Haha Lorelei might tease her mother about it, but Brynden would be quick to intervene.

Will Lorelei end up bullying any potentional little brothers ? What are the chances she will end up as smug as her mother ?

August 29, 2016

Lorelei is likely to grow to be much like her mother, she's her first born after all and while she's aware that the Crownlands aren't Dorne, that isn't going to stop her from making sure her daughter is the kind of woman that could lead a House and be the Heir. To what extent and what that truly means is still up in the air.

Brothers, eh, it depends upon if there are any and what they're like.

How hard would it be to go full Tywin on the crown lands and become the most bitchin influential lord in the crow lands? I want to sing the rains of castamere on redwards burning keep so bad

August 29, 2016

Pretty hard. The Malroys don't have that sort of political clout, as I've said they've always been more on the side of military influence and strength to the Crown, rather than political or economic like say the Stokeworths or the Velaryons. Given their weakened position, a result of that former strength and position in relation to King's Landing, Brynden will never be able to truly hold that sort of clout amongst the Crownlands, not in this lifetime anyway.

That being said, Redward's Keep? Still on the approved burning list.

How long did it take for the family to realise Brynden was gone and what did they think he was doing/where intill the found out ? What was each members initial reaction when they found out ?

August 29, 2016

Not very long, Ser Roderick Sunglass of course noticed immediately. Assumed he had just ended up drunk in a whorehouse. Couple days later sent out a manhunt. After a week he sent word to Lord Vamos, by then they had put the pieces together.

Vamos raged, sent people to find him in Essos at Esemella's insistence. I believe I've mentioned before that the latter had been hysterical, it broke her heart. It only furthered the rift between Donold and Brynden, they never would have made up afterwards. Dontos was similar but the circumstances changedm as we all know. Pastorn of course put off his dreams to help his mother heal. And well I've mentioned that Isis was the only who knew it was ever going to happen, though she took it about as well as you could expect.

How was Brynden's birth. Was it harder or easier than the others compared to his brothers and sister ?

August 29, 2016

House Hayford breeds strong stock, Brynden's mother didn't have a single difficult birth. It's among the reasons Brynden is a bit on the fertile end. Also, why Isis had twins, Hayfords have twins in their bloodline, skips generations as you would expect, also leaves the chance for Brynden.

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